20VC: Leo Aschenbrenner's Largest Holding: Inside the $90BN Bloom Energy | Why Electricity, Not AI Models, Will Decide the Winners of the AI Race | Why We Are Not in an AI Capex Bubble | Energy Sovereignty and The Future of Power with KR Sridhar
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摘要
KR Sridhar is the Founder and CEO of Bloom Energy, the distributed power company powering the AI revolution. Under his leadership, Bloom has grown to a market cap of approximately $93 billion, with revenue surpassing $2 billion as demand from AI data centres has surged. Over the last 12–18 months, Bloom has become one of the biggest beneficiaries of the AI infrastructure boom. It's also the largest position in Leo Aschenbrenner's investment portfolio, making up around 16% of his fund. AGENDA: 00:00 Why Failure Is Never an Option: The Mindset That Built a $90B Company 05:20 The 25-Year Bet: Why Bloom Never Doubted AI Would Need Its Technology 12:10 Andy Grove's Brutal Leadership Lesson That Changed Everything 18:40 AI Isn't a Bubble—It's a "Hockey Stick on a Hockey Stick" 25:30 Why Electricity, Not AI Models, Will Decide the Winners of the AI Race 34:20 The Radical Vision: Why Power Must Move to the Edge of the Grid 40:40 How Bloom Beat Everyone to Power Oracle's AI Data Centres in Just 55 Days 50:00 The Future of Cities, Energy Sovereignty & Why AI Will Democratise Power 52:10 Parenting, Purpose & the One Belief KR Thinks Everyone Gets Wrong About AI 55:00 The Next 10 Years: Why AI Could Create Global Energy Abundance
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中英文字稿 
失去是我无法想象的事情。在我投入精力和时间的任何事情上，我都不会把失败视为一种选项。任何变革，比如人工智能，我认为绝对是一场革命，就好像是在一个弯道上连续转弯。显然，电力成为了关键因素。我们相信电力必须被传递到每个角落。全世界的电力市场价值达到5.5万亿美元。去年，我们的收入是20亿美元。当电力得以普及，任何人在权力上都无法限制其获取时，这才是真正的民主。我想强调，不要低估美国，更不要小看硅谷。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
To lose is something I simply cannot contemplate. There's nothing that I do where I put effort, I put time, and I think of failure as an option. Any revolution, and I would call AI absolutely a revolution, it's almost a hockey stick on a hockey stick. Clearly, electricity becomes the key factor. We believe bringing power to the edge has to happen. Electricity in the world is a $5.5 trillion market. Last year, our revenues were $2 billion. When power is democratized, access is not restricted by people who are in power, and that's true democracy. I would say don't short the US, don't short Silicon Valley.
这是20VC节目。今天，Leo Ashenbrenner基金中占16%的最大仓位备受关注。Bloom Energy的创始人兼首席执行官KR Shridhar来到我们的演播室。KR的经历可以说是非常精彩——他曾是一名NASA火箭科学家，参与过火星任务，然后创立了能源公司Bloom。25年来，他从未怀疑过自己的公司会成功。可以说，这是一个漫长而艰难的旅程。如今，该公司的市值约为930亿美元，在短短一年内增长超过1500%。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
This is 20VC. Today, the largest position in Leo Ashenbrenner's fund, which makes up 16% of his fund, is in the hot seat, baby. KR Shridhar, founder and CEO of Bloom Energy, joins us in the studio. Now, KR's journey is wild. Former NASA rocket scientist who worked on Mars missions before founding the energy company that is Bloom. 25 years building a company he never once doubted would work. My word, that is a desert to go through. Today, the market cap is approximately $93 billion, up over 1,500% in a single year.
2025年的收入达到20亿美元，同比增长37%，几乎完全是由AI数据中心的需求推动的。这次演出对我来说真的很特别。作为Leo Ashenbrenner的长期粉丝，我现在明白他为什么如此全力支持Bloom Energy。但在我们深入今天的节目之前，你知道行业平均预订商务旅行需要45分钟吗？这对团队来说是巨大的时间浪费。而使用Navan，员工平均只需7分钟就能完成预订。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Revenue hit $2 billion in 2025, up 37% year-on-year, driven almost entirely by, yep, you guessed it, the AI data center demand. This was a really special show for me to do. Having been a fan of Leo Ashenbrenner's for a long time, I now see why he's so all-in on Bloom Energy. But before we dive into the show today, did you know the industry average for booking a business trip is 45 minutes? That's a massive waste of your team's time. Well, with Navan, your employees can book a trip in just seven on average.
Navan 是一个由人工智能驱动的差旅和费用管理平台，专为重视效率的公司设计。它通过高员工采纳率和自动化政策控制带来真正的商业影响。现在，内置的人工智能会自动批准符合政策的预订，并阻止那些不合规的。这让财务团队不再需要追着收据跑，也不用在月末手忙脚乱。实时的可视化管理还可以为公司节省多达15%的差旅预算。这就是为什么像Visa、Stripe、Figma甚至Anthropic这样的领导企业如今都信赖Navan。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Navan is the AI-powered travel and expense platform designed for companies that value efficiency. It drives real business impact through high employee adoption and automated policy control. Now, the built-in AI approves in-policy bookings and blocks the rest automatically. This allows finance teams to stop chasing receipts and skip the month-end chaos. And you get this real-time visibility that can save your company up to 15% on your travel budget. And that's why leaders like Visa, Stripe, Figma, and even Anthropic rely on Navan these days.
现在就访问 navan.com/20VC 看看吧，您将有机会赢得两张美国大陆的商务舱机票。无需购买，但需遵循相关规则。赶快前往 navan.com/20VC 吧。一旦 Navan 简化了旅行，Airwallet 将简化背后的支出。创始人们，让我们一起认真讨论增长的代价。当你获得了风险投资并在全球扩张时，已经不再只是推出产品那么简单，而是要在不同大陆之间协调运营。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Go to navan.com forward slash 20VC today to see for yourself, and you'll get a chance to win two business-class flights anywhere in continental US. No purchase necessary, rules apply. Head over to navan.com forward slash 20VC now. Once Navan simplifies the travel, Airwallet simplifies the spend behind it. Founders, let's get real about the growth tax. You've raised VC funding and you're scaling globally, and it's no longer about shipping product. It's about orchestrating operations across continents.
但突然间，你的支付和财务体系开始阻碍你的发展。你需要登录许多不同的银行门户，等待几天的转账，还要在不同实体之间报告。这是运营上的拖累，尤其是在你发展的规模上，造成了数百万的损失。这就是为什么我对与Airwalletx合作感到如此兴奋的原因。Airwalletx不仅仅是HSBC或花旗银行的替代方案。Airwalletx为您提供一个智能化的金融操作系统，帮助全球企业运营和发展，让您可以管理并自动化银行业务、财务管理、支付和支出。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But suddenly, your payments and finance stack is choking your growth. You're logging into lots of different banking portals, waiting days for transfers, and reporting across entities. It's operational drag, and it's at your scale. It's costing millions. That's why I'm so excited to partner with Airwalletx. Airwalletx are more than just a banking alternative to HSBC or Citi. Airwalletx brings you an intelligent financial operating system that powers how global businesses operate and grow, allowing you to manage and automate banking, treasury, payments, and spend.
让我感到最兴奋的是，他们正在大力投资于智能金融。如果你正在进行全球扩张，你需要一个无国界、实时并且智能的银行和金融平台。今天就去了解一下Airwalletx吧，看看他们是如何帮助Canva、McLaren和Deal等成千上万的企业的。访问airwalletx.com/20VC开始扩展。条款和条件适用。你的资金是安全的，但不受英国金融服务补偿计划（FSCS）的保护。更多详情请访问airwalletx.com。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
The most exciting part for me, they're heavily investing in agentic finance. If you're scaling globally, you need a banking and finance platform that's borderless, real-time, and intelligent. Check out Airwalletx today and see how they're helping thousands of businesses like Canva, McLaren, and Deal. Scale at airwalletx.com forward slash 20VC. Terms and conditions apply. Your monies are safeguarded, not FSCS protected. See airwalletx.com for more details.
Airwalletx 帮助您的资金在全球范围内流动，而Vanta则确保您的安全同步发展。现在商界有什么东西像人工智能一样快速传播呢？那就是AI风险。每当您的团队注册一个新工具、每当供应商启用AI功能、每当进行新的系统集成，这些都可能带来问题。遗憾的是，大多数安全计划并没有为人工智能的快速发展做好准备。而这正是Vanta能够发挥作用的地方。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
While Airwalletx helps your money move globally, Vanta helps your security keep up. What's one thing in business that's spreading as fast as AI? AI risk. Every new tool your team signs up for, every vendor that turns on AI features, every new integration, each one, I'm sorry to say, is an opportunity for something to go wrong. And most security programs weren't built for AI's pace of growth. Well, that's where Vanta comes in.
Vanta 是一个被超过 16,000 家快速发展的公司使用的首要代理信任平台，这些公司包括 Ramp、Cursor、Harvey 等，确保他们始终准备好接受审计。现在，Vanta 还帮助像您这样的公司监测在您的供应商、AI 工具以及整个环境中订单之间出现的风险。怎么做到的呢？Vanta 的代理就像一名全天候的 GRC 工程师在后台工作，发现问题、起草解决方案，并将供应商协议的时间缩短最多50%。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Vanta is the number one agentic trust platform used by over 16,000 fast-moving companies like Ramp, Cursor, Harvey, and more to ensure they're always audit-ready. And now Vanta's helping companies like yours watch for the risks that show up between orders across your vendors, your AI tools, and your whole environment. How? Well, the Vanta agent works like a 24-7 GRC engineer in the background, finding issues, drafting fixes, and cutting vendor agreements time by up to 50%.
无论您是一家快速发展的初创公司还是一个全球企业，Vanta 都可以帮助您自动化安全和合规，并建立和证明信任。我的听众还有一个特别优惠。哦，是的，一个特别优惠。在 Vanta.com/20VC 处可享受 $1,000 的优惠。这是 V-A-N-T-A.com/20VC，可享受 $1,000 的折扣。您现在已经到达目的地。KR，我对此感到非常兴奋。我是这家公司及其故事的超级粉丝，所以很高兴您能亲自来到这里。非常感谢您的邀请。能在这里真的是巨大的荣幸。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Whether you're a fast-growing startup or a global enterprise, Vanta's here to help you automate your security and your compliance, and earn and prove trust. My listeners get a special offer. Oh yes, a special offer. $1,000 off Vanta at Vanta.com slash 20VC. That's V-A-N-T-A dot com slash 20VC for $1,000 off. You have now arrived at your destination. KR, I'm so excited for this. I am like the biggest fan of the company and the story, so it's such a pleasure to have you here in person. Thank you so much for having me. It's a great honor to be here.
我向世界上一些最优秀的创始人提出了一个问题，这个问题让人深入思考心态：你更受赢得胜利的刺激驱动，还是更害怕失败？对我来说，失败是我无法想象的事。无论我做什么，只要投入时间和精力，我都不会把失败当作一种选项。在创办公司之前，我曾参与过火星任务。在那样的环境中，你不能在火星上找个水管工，事情出了问题也无法途中修复。所以你必须深思熟虑，考虑好10个关键的问题。一个意外可能会毁掉你的生活。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I asked some of the best founders in the world this question, but it really intrigues me on mindset. Are you more motivated by the thrill of winning or the fear of failing? To lose is something I simply cannot contemplate. There's nothing that I do where I put effort, I put time, and I think of failure as an option. Before starting the company, I did the Mars missions. And there, you cannot call a plumber on Mars. You cannot fix something along the way. So what you do is you think through, let me think about the 10 big things. A boom can happen and it ruins your life.
然后你会说，好吧，我要通过各种可能的替代方案来减轻这方面的风险，因为事情总会发生。我不喜欢失败，但我应对失败的方法是风险缓解。考虑可能出错的事情，并提前为此做好计划。糟糕的事情可能会发生，你可能会跌倒。但我并不担心跌倒，而是重新站起来。你会对那些努力重新站起来的人说些什么呢？如果你在给你的孩子建议，也许有很多人经历了裁员。对于科技行业来说，这是个艰难的时期。谁正在努力重新站起来呢？
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Then you say, okay, I'm going to mitigate that by every possible workaround because something's going to happen. So I hate failure, but the way I deal with failure is risk mitigation. Think about things that can go wrong and prepare ahead of time for a plan around it. Bad things can happen. You can fall down. Falling down is not what I'm concerned about. It's about the getting up. What would you say to someone who is struggling to get up? If you're advising your child, maybe there's a lot of people who've gone through layoffs. It's a tough time in tech for that. Who is struggling to get up again?
真正艰难的经历是塑造你的关键，让你真正了解自己的本质。当一切顺利时，很容易感觉自己像个英雄。然而，这些艰难的经历，无论多么困难，只要你从中吸取教训并放眼未来，就能取得成长。别总回顾过去，就像开车时我们看的是前面的路，而不是后视镜。后视镜只用来学习，而不是反复回放“糟糕的电影”。如果那是一段不愉快的经历，就像看了一部烂片，为什么要在脑海里一遍遍重播呢？从中学习，然后向前看，相信明天总会比今天更好。至少，拥有这样的态度能让生活变得更轻松。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
The really hard experiences are what shape you, what you're really made of. It's very easy to feel like you're a hero when everything is going well for you. These hard experiences, as hard as they may be, if you just learn from it and look forward. Don't look in the rearview mirror. When you're driving, you're looking through the windshield. You're looking forward. You just look in the rearview mirror only to learn, not to play the bad movie again and again. If that was a bad experience for you, it's like watching a bad movie. Why would you play the bad movie again in your mind? Learn from it. Look forward. Believe that tomorrow is always going to be better than today. At a minimum, life gets easier when you have that attitude.
你有一种非常让人平静的气场。说真的，我几乎从未在采访中遇到过这样的人，这真是令人惊讶。毕竟，我已经做了3000次采访。你说期待明天，因为明天比今天更美好。这项业务有趣的地方在于它已经有25年的历史了，而在过去的两年里，它突然成了大家的宠儿，无论我们如何定义这段时间。你一直都知道这时候会到来吗？还是说，市场的发展方向是难以预料的？如果你看看我2001年的PowerPoint演示，也就是向我第一个投资者Kleiner Perkins推介的内容，John Doerr，它的总结页中展示了一个数据中心，一个为数据中心供能的燃料电池，废热用来冷却数据中心，并且这个系统不依赖其他任何东西。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
You have the most calming presence. Seriously, I've almost ever interviewed, which is astonishing. I've done 3,000 interviews. When you say look forward, tomorrow is kind of better than today. The interesting thing with this business is it's 25 years old. It's become a darling in the last two years, whatever we want to call that time frame. Did you always know this time was going to happen? Or respectfully, was it a market moving in directions we couldn't anticipate? If you look at my 2001 PowerPoint presentation, which was the pitch to Kleiner Perkins, who was my first investor, John Doerr, the summary page puts out a data center. It puts out a bloom box powering the data center, the waste heat providing the cooling for the data center, and it being connected to nothing else.
我们今天所做的事情，之所以它正在成为宠儿，是因为那些数据中心终于意识到，这是适合他们的解决方案。对我来说，从2001年到现在，这25年间，从来没有怀疑过"是否"，只是在于"何时"和"多快"。你有没有过怀疑？我的意思是，25年真是令人惊叹，KL。在这段时间里，没有一个晚上我回家时会担心公司是否能存活或表现良好，或者我是否在这个领域做出了错误的选择。确实有几天，公司面临过生存的威胁，我们不得不克服。但在我心中，失败从来不是选项。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
What we are doing today, the reason it's becoming the darling, is those data centers are finally waking up and saying, this is the right solution for us. For me, the period between 2001 and now, the 25 years, was never a question of if. It was a question of when and how soon. Did you ever doubt it? I mean, 25 years is astonishing, KL. There was not a single night I went home and worried about the company surviving or doing well or whether I had made a mistake jumping into this field. There were several days, there were several times where the company had existential threats to it that we had to overcome. But in my mind, again, failure was never an option.
所以我从来没有担心过明天早上醒来时，我们是否会比前一天更好。你提到过约翰·杜尔，他是一个了不起的人。一路上你遇到了好几位这样了不起的人。我读到过有一个安迪·格鲁夫的事件，对你的领导观念产生了深刻影响。你能告诉我那个事件是什么，以及它如何影响了你的领导风格吗？当然可以。我是个技术人员，曾经是个火箭科学家。于是，我开始了自己的公司。刚开始的时候，如果有人跟我提到损益表、息税折旧摊销前利润等这些财务术语，我根本不知道它们是什么意思。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So I really never once worried about when we wake up tomorrow morning, are we going to be better off than we were the previous day? You mentioned John Doerr, an incredible individual. You've had several incredible individuals be part of the journey. I read that there was an Andy Grove moment that really shaped your thinking on leadership. Can you tell me about that moment and how it shaped your leadership? Sure. I'm a technologist. I used to be a rocket scientist. So here I am starting a company. And when I started the company, if you had given me, if you had said P&L, EBITDA, all those financial terms, I wouldn't even know what that meant.
在这个过程中，我不断学习，于是走到了今天这一步。我知道如何制造一次性产品，并且做得非常好，因为这正是我们为太空任务所做的工作，也是我们在大学实验室中的工作。因此，我们制造了一些一次性、两次性的第一代"开花盒"，它们目前在谷歌等地运行得非常好。在我们制造了前五个之后，我和工程师们说，现在我们可以把它交给制造部门，让他们来生产。我们却没有料到，我们的工程意图、设计意图，以及我们所知道的一切，都必须以极其详细的方式写成生产说明。这样那些只是技术员而不了解工程内容的人，就能严格按照指示来制造这些盒子。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And I learned along the way. So here I am. I know how to build one-off and really well, because that's what we did for the space missions. That's what we did in our university labs. So we had built this one-off, two-off of the first bloom boxes that are out there working at Google, other places doing very well. After we built the first five, me and the engineer said, we can now hand it off to manufacturing and ask them to make it. Little did we know, our engineering intent, our design intent, everything we knew had to be written up in such elaborate terms in terms of manufacturing instructions. For somebody who is just a technician, who does not know the engineering content, but will do exactly what they're being told to make these boxes.
翻译成中文：所以在这里，我们制造了接下来的10个、20个产品。它们都被送到实地，但却以壮观的失败告终。这让我们感到震惊，因为在最初的那些日子里，这些是昂贵的初始产品，名誉岌岌可危。所以我想，这样下去是行不通的。于是我停止了生产。我给董事会打电话，说我需要帮助。我需要有人来帮我，告诉我如何进行生产制造，我对此一无所知。其中一位来了的人是90岁的Grow，他后来成了我的好友和导师，以及硅谷的传奇人物。还有一些其他的制造业专家，其中一位是我董事会的成员。于是我们被要求汇总所有现有的数据，结果我们有了一本又一本的数据夹。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So here we build the next 10, the next 20. They're all going out in the field and failing spectacularly. And it's a shock, because in those early days, they're expensive, first units. Reputation is on the line. So I go, this cannot scale. So I just stop production. I call my board and I say, I need help. I need people to come and help me, tell me how to do manufacturing. I don't know. One of the people that come is 90 Grow, who became a great friend and a mentor and a valley legend. And then there are some other manufacturing gurus. One of them was on my board. So we were asked to compile all the data we had. So we have three ring binders after three ring binders.
我们现在谈的是我们还使用纸张处理一切事务的那个时代，对吧？当时我们准备了一切，整个高管团队坐在一侧的大会议室里，而一些出色的顾问，包括安迪·格鲁，则坐在另一侧。我们订了晚餐，准备了大量文件，心想着要开夜车来解决问题。大家都坐下之后，刚一开始说话，我都不确定我们是否说完了第一句话，安迪就说：“你们能暂停一下吗？” 然后他继续说：“除了KR，能请其他高管团队的人都离开这个房间吗？”
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Now we are talking about the time when we still used paper for everything, right? So we had them all packed. We had an entire executive team sitting on one side of a large boardroom. These great advisors sitting on the other side, including Andy Grow. And we had dinner ordered and we had all these stacks. We're thinking we're going to stay up all night until we get to solving the problem. So we all sit down. And as soon as we start talking, I don't know that we finished the first sentence. Andy says, can you stop for a minute? And he says, can everybody else in the room leave from the executive team other than KR?
我坐在这边，对面坐着一群杰出的人，看起来几乎像是一支行刑队。然后安迪问道：“出了什么问题？”于是我开始解释我认为可能出的问题。他打断说：“不，不，停下。出了什么问题？”我换了个说法，以为刚才没表达清楚。第三次后，他 lean over 过来对我说：“KR，我想知道你怎么了。” 这让我感到震惊，顿了片刻。我说：“我正在努力打造一款对人们有益的优秀设备，我不知道自己有什么问题。”
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And so I have this group of illuminaries sitting on the other side and me sitting on this side looking, it almost looks like a firing squad. And then Andy says, what's wrong? So I begin to explain what I think may be wrong. He says, no, no, no, stop. What's wrong? I say something else thinking that I didn't get through to him properly. And after the third time, he's like, KR, just leans over and he says, I want to know what's wrong with you. And it shocks me. It just shocks me for a moment. I sit back and I go, I'm trying to build a great device that's going to be beneficial to people. I don't know what's wrong with me.
他说，你真是个聪明的人。你打造的这项技术真是太了不起了。如果你去基层走走，和那里的员工聊聊，他们会告诉你为什么这东西没起作用，因为他们不明白自己在做什么。你有没有和员工交流过？他们有没有告诉你他们不懂什么？我突然意识到，我从来没有这样做过。然后他说，我知道其他人都想去看那些培训资料。没有人比你更了解你的产品。如果你有能力设计它，那你一定有能力弄明白问题所在。别浪费时间听别人和我说什么，自己去找答案。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And he says, you're such a smart guy. You built this technology that's just absolutely amazing. If you walk the floors and talk to the people out there, they are going to tell you why it's not working because they don't understand what they're building. Have you talked to people and have they told you what they don't know? It dawns on me that I've never done that. Then he says, I know all these other guys want to go through those training binders. None of us know your product better than you. If you're smart enough to design it, you'll be smart enough to figure it out. Don't waste your time listening to everybody else and me. Go figure it out.
这是我听过的最佳建议。你从“走动管理”中得到什么启发？就像是拉近与客户的距离，也是拉近与团队的距离。这种做法如何影响你未来的思维方式？这个问题问得很好。这里不仅仅是关于车间。安迪·格罗教导的是，你需要具备同理心，以便理解业务的每个方面。当你通过走动，和那些正在生产产品的车间团队成员交流，来培养和实践这种同理心时，才能更好地进行管理。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
That was the best piece of advice I ever got. What do you take from that walk the floor? It's like proximity to customers. It's proximity to the team. How did that shape how you think about your go forward mindset? Great question. So this is not just about the shop floor. What Andy Groh was teaching you was you need to have the empathy to be able to relate to every aspect of your business and when you develop that empathy and when you practice that empathy by walking on the floor, talking to your shop floor, team members who are building your product.
他们会告诉你一些事情，而这些事情将让你从一家好公司变成一家伟大的公司。你也要这样对待你的客户。你不是告诉他们你的产品有多好，或者他们为什么应该购买，而是去了解他们的痛点，以及他们希望你为他们解决什么问题。这就是同理心。然后根据这些信息来设计你的产品。还有一点我要告诉你，我们的车间员工，走到他们那里，和他们交谈，告诉他们为什么这件事重要，告诉他们他们所做的事情为什么重要。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
They will tell you things and the things they tell you are going to make the difference in you being a good company and a great company. You do the same thing with your customers. You don't tell them why your product is great and they should buy. You go there to find out what is their pain and what problems do they want you to solve for them. That's empathy. Then you design your product accordingly. Here's what I can tell you. Our shop floor employees, walking there, talking to them and telling them why it matters, telling them why what they do matters.
所以当我们举行全体会议时，或者即使不是全体会议，只是和公司高管一起共进晚餐，我敬酒的时候，总是记得要说，我们现在手中的这杯美酒或香槟之所以能举杯庆祝，是因为此刻有一些技术人员在默默付出。虽然没有人在监管他们，但他们的自豪感和敬业精神让他们创造出卓越的产品。让我们为他们干杯。我非常喜欢这样表达，这是一种充满人情味的方式。再次强调，你总能带来一种令人平静的氛围。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So when we have our all hands meetings or forget the all hands meetings, if you're having a dinner party with executives, when I toast these days, I always remember to say, we're toasting right now this great champagne or whatever it is that we're toasting. But we're able to do this because there are some technicians on the floor right now. Nobody is policing them, but their pride, their dedication, they're building an amazing product. Let's toast to them. I love that and I love the humanity. Again, it's an amazing, calming presence that you have.
在此之前，我看了一些你接受的其他采访。坦率地说，你提到由人工智能驱动的电力需求是长期且持久的。同时，Keil，我们的节目中有很多优秀的人，他们谈论基础设施泡沫以及某种程度上不可避免的衰退。在你看来，我们现在是否处于一个AI基础设施泡沫中？虽然这个问题很直白，但市场、股价、基础设施和长期变化常常被人们混淆。股市总会经历它该经历的波动。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I was watching some of your other interviews before this. Candidly, you said that AI-driven power demand is secular and enduring. And, Keil, I have many great people on the show and they talk about infrastructure bubbles and the inevitability of kind of falters. Are we in an AI infrastructure bubble when you look at it from your perspective, as blunt as that is? People confuse markets, stock prices, and infrastructure and secular changes. The stock market is going to go through whatever it goes through.
任何一种革命，我认为人工智能绝对算是一场革命，其发展速度几乎呈现出一种“曲棍球棒”的趋势。在科技和数字化的发展过程中，我们已经从机械时代的基础设施转变为数字时代的基础设施，而人工智能的发展又在这种趋势上进一步推动了一次“曲棍球棒”式的增长。这就是我们当前所经历的变化。以这样的速度发展，会不会遇到一些挫折或暂停？很可能会是这样。在人类历史上，我们还未曾见过这种规模和程度的发展。然而，在经历了调整之后，人工智能的发展轨迹是否会继续沿着这条非凡的道路前行？我坚信会的。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Any revolution, and I would call AI absolutely a revolution, it's almost a hockey stick on a hockey stick. Technology itself, digitization itself was on a hockey stick in terms of us going from the mechanical age infrastructure to the digital age infrastructure. AI has come and put a hockey stick on that hockey stick. And that's what we're experiencing. Anything going at that speed, will it have bumps along the road? Will it have pauses along the way? Most probably, yes. We don't know of anything else in human history of this scale and this magnitude. But is the trajectory, is the normal course after the course correction, still going to be this phenomenal course? I absolutely believe so.
在人类历史上，第一次我们正在制造智能。有哪个文明中的人曾说过：“我们拥有过多的智能，应该停止制造”呢？从来没有。所以我认为智能将会变得无处不在且丰盈。当智能这一原本稀缺的资源变得普遍且丰富时，什么会成为有价值的资产呢？是智慧。你知道吗，人工智能不会给予你智慧。人工智能不会带给你幸福。人工智能也不会让你具备与人沟通所需的同理心。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
For the first time in human history, we are manufacturing intelligence. When was the last time any person anywhere in any civilization said, we have too much intelligence, let's stop? Never. So I think this is going to be ubiquitous. When intelligence becomes ubiquitous and abundant, which was the scarce resource, what becomes the valuable asset if intelligence is ubiquitous and abundant? Wisdom. You know, AI is not going to give you wisdom. AI is not going to give you happiness. AI is not going to give you empathy to relate to people the way you need to.
归根结底，由一个机器人进行咨询和你我面对面坐在这里交谈、观察彼此的面部表情、互相交流是不同的。人类是社会型动物。当你回首今天所做的事情时，你最常遇到的最大障碍是什么？在将新概念引入社会方面，最大的障碍就是新思想所带来的摩擦。从大范围来看，这种摩擦是有理由存在的，因为世界上的许多大型基础设施都被设计和监管得动作缓慢。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
At the end of the day, a bot giving you counseling is not going to be the same as you and me sitting here talking to each other, looking at each other, understanding the facial expressions, relating to one another. So humans are social animals. When you look at what you do today, what's the single biggest bottleneck that you face most consistently? The single biggest bottleneck in terms of introducing a new concept into society is the friction associated with new ideas. On a big macro scale, it is, for good reasons, very large infrastructure in the world has been designed and regulated to move slowly.
我们正进入一个时代，以前那些有意在过程中制造摩擦的繁多法规，虽然过去有益，但现在却阻碍了我们的发展。尤其是在欧洲大陆，这方面是你们的专长。是的，没错，没错。我是说，你们在这方面算是拿了个A+。其实我们甚至还需要申请一个许可才能上楼，真是费了不少时间。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And we are entering an age where that huge amount of regulation that intentionally creates friction in the process, which was beneficial in the past, becomes an impediment to our growth. And I'm particularly sensitive that I'm here in the European continent. You specialize in this. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you get A plus for. We had to get a permit to come up the stairs, actually. It took a while.
加文·贝克（Gavin Baker）是一位在该领域非常知名的思想领袖，也是杰出的投资者。他确实表达了这样一种观点，即相关的审批和监管挑战实际上几乎起到了一定的积极作用，因为它限制了供应，从而使其能够稳步增长。如果我们一开始就有无限供应，反而会产生更多问题。你同意这种看法吗？还是认为这只是一个持续的障碍？
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Gavin Baker, who's obviously a very pronounced thought leader in the space and brilliant investor, did articulate, though, that kind of permitting and the regulatory challenges around it actually has almost helped because it throttled supply to allow it to grow in lockstep. And if we had unlimited supply straight away, it would actually create more problems. Do you agree with that? Or do you think it actually just continues to be an inhibitor?
看看，在一个各方对法规和增长的看法不一致的世界里，我不认为我会同意他的观点。如果这是一个全球现象，每个人都同意以某种速度前进，那情况就不一样了。但那是乌托邦，实际上从未发生过。因此，当某个国家或地区放缓速度时，而其他地方以极快的速度前进，这将对放缓速度的地区造成真正的不利影响。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Look, in an asymmetric world where not every player views regulation and growth at that level, I don't think I would agree with him. If there was a global phenomenon and everybody on the planet agreed that we will throttle and move at a particular speed, that's a different story. But that's utopia. That never happens. So being left behind because a particular country, a particular geography throttled it, when somebody moved at breakneck speed becomes a real detriment to the region that throttled it.
美国是否有可能因为现有的监管许可规定而被亚洲，特别是中国，甩在后面？在这些国家，他们的发展模式非常出色，并且监管和许可环境完全没有阻碍他们。我认为如果其他条件都相同，你所说的确实可能成真。但美国的创造力和创新的企业家精神，依然是美国在当今世界上相较于其他地方的一大优势。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Is there a chance that the U.S. will be left behind because of the regulatory permitting provisions that are in place when viewed in context against Asia or China in particular, where they have amazing model development and the permitting and regulatory environment is honestly not inhibiting them at all? I think if everything else were equal, what you're saying would absolutely be true. But the creative prowess, the innovative entrepreneurial spirit that you see in the United States is still a major trump card that the U.S. has over any other place in the world today.
我会说，人类的精神将能够克服我们面临的任何其他障碍。我会说，不要低估美国，不要低估硅谷。这从来不是一个好主意，从来都不好，回报也不好。五年后会出现一个非常明显的瓶颈，而我们现在并没有真正谈论它。我认为，从社会和全球角度来看，最大的瓶颈是让那些被落下的人达到一定程度的平等。你知道，差距总会存在。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And I would say that human spirit is going to be able to overcome whatever other obstacles we have. I would say don't short the U.S., don't short Silicon Valley. It's never a good idea. Never a good idea. It's not paid well. What would be a very pronounced bottleneck in five years' time that we're not really talking about today? I think that societally, globally, I would say the largest bottleneck would be bringing the people who are left behind to some level of parity. You know, there'll always be gaps.
在整个人类历史上，第一次发生的事情是什么？这不仅仅是技术史上的第一次。在今天的数字世界中，对于一个刚出生的孩子来说，除了空气、水、住所和食物，电力几乎也成为过上体面现代生活的必需品。然而，世界上有很大一部分地区无法获得或承担这种电力。我认为，当我们展望未来五年时，提供这种程度的电力可及性和可负担性将变得非常重要。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But what's happening for the first time in human history, right? It's not even in technology history. In human history is next to air, water, shelter, food, electricity becomes almost a necessity for a young kid being born today to have a decent modern life in this digital world. And there's significant swaths of this world that don't have access or affordability to that power. And I think when we look five years from now, the need to bring that level of access and affordability is going to be super important.
我们都处于一个有点高端的圈子，无论是参加的活动还是交往的人群。坦率地说，我观察到越来越少的人赚到了越来越多的钱。你难道没有同感吗？虽然这令人感到遗憾，但我认为人工智能在集中财富方面的作用大于它在分配财富方面的作用。关于人的数量和通过人工智能获得惊人财务成功的公司数量减少这一点，我同意你的看法。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
We're both in slightly rarefied airs in terms of the events we go to, the people we spend time with. Candidly, I just see a smaller and smaller number of people make more and more money. Do you not see the same? And as sad as it is, I think AI is doing more to concentrate wealth than it is distribute it. You know, I wouldn't disagree with you on the number of people, the fewer number of companies that are going to make an unbelievable amount of financial success out of AI.
然而，目前还没有比科技更有效的方法能够让全世界的人都受益。科技是人类历史上最强大的平衡器。想想婴儿死亡率、饥饿、清洁饮水和医疗保健，我们能够治愈的许多疾病，这些都是科技带给大多数人的成果。在全世界范围内，可能没有其他力量像科技一样能在如此大规模上对这么多人产生如此深远的影响。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
However, there is no known methodology to raise all boats in the world than technology. Technology has been the best equalizer in the history of mankind. Just think about infant mortality. Think about hunger. Think about clean water. Think about health care and the number of things we're able to cure. It is technology that's brought all that to most people in the world. There is probably no force in the world other than technology that has done that to so many people at such large scale.
最好的医疗和最差的医疗之间是否存在不平等？答案是肯定的。但是，由于技术进步，地球上每一个活着的人的医疗状况是否比以前好得多？答案同样是肯定的。我同意这个看法。因此，目前的障碍在于如何让人们跟上进步，并避免让他们感到自己是被孤立的多数，从而觉得自己不再是这场革命的一部分。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Is there inequity between the best health care and the lowest health care? The answer is yes. But has the health care of every living person on the planet gotten a lot better than it was because of the technological advances? The answer is yes. I agree. And so the bottleneck is then bringing people along and stopping them feeling like they are an isolated majority who are now not part of the revolution.
我认为你提到的一个非常重要的话题是"丰盈"。回顾我们之前经历的革命—机械时代和工业时代的革命，大多数情况下都是一个有限的"蛋糕"。在这个有限的蛋糕中，如果你分到更大的一块，那么我分到的就会更小，也就是说，这是一种零和游戏。 但是，当我们创造出丰盈，比如我们正在谈论的智能丰盈，丰盈就改变了整个观点。你获得更大的一块蛋糕并不会让我吃亏。我们只需将所有人包括进来即可。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I think you're touching on something super important, which is abundance. If you just think about the previous revolution we had, which is the mechanical age, industrial age revolution, it was still, for the most part, a fixed pie. And in that fixed pie, if you got a bigger slice of it, I got a smaller slice of it. So it was a zero-sum game. When you create abundance, like the intelligence abundance we're talking about, abundance just changes the entire framing. You getting a larger piece of the pie is not coming at my expense. We just have to include all the people.
我可以问一个有趣的问题吗？这是我前几天在电视上被问到的，虽然让我有点吃惊，我当时没想到他们会这样突然提问。我已经看到有些建议认为，政府应该拥有一些大型人工智能公司的股份，以便更好地将公众带入这个领域。你如何看待这一倡议？这是否只是一个看上去不错但没有实质意义的营销说法，还是说这种做法实际上能让人们感到他们在这些公司中也有一份所有权？
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Can I ask an interesting one that I actually got asked on TV the other day? And I was slightly taken aback by asking, I wasn't expecting, you know, when they throw things at you kind of exactly like this and you're like, God, I wasn't expecting that. We've seen some suggestions that actually governments should own part of the largest AI companies to bring people with them. What do you think of that as an initiative? Is it like a nominally nice marketing message but carries no weight? Or is it actually meaningful for people to feel like they have ownership in these companies?
看，这里有个关于公司、科技和所有权的问题，对吧？在美国，最重要的前20家公司这个名单每10年都会发生变化。这和欧盟很不一样，在欧盟，几乎没有新公司崛起并取代已有的老公司。我看到这个世界越来越不像是由单一的大公司垄断。你知道，微软曾经被认为是垄断企业，大家都很害怕它，而现在不是了。谷歌也曾被认为是垄断企业，而现在也不是了。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Look, here's the thing about companies, tech, ownerships, right? The top 20 most important companies, that list changes every 10 years in the U.S. It's so unlike the EU where practically new companies have rarely come on and displaced existing old companies. I see the world more and more being not monopolized by single large companies. You know, Microsoft used to be considered a monopoly and everybody was afraid of it. No longer. Google was considered to be the monopoly. No longer.
我认为没有必要进行监管。在我看来，监管唯一能做到的就是阻碍创新文化。如果政府持有某家公司大量股份，并因此给予这些公司不公平的产品和人才资源使用权，这实际上就阻止了那些拥有更好想法的初创企业的竞争。我认为应该鼓励自由竞争。回到你问我的第一个问题，成功与失败。如果你希望创业者成功，就必须至少让他们感受到自己在一个公平的竞争环境中。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I don't see regulation having to come in. The only thing regulation can do, in my opinion, is stop that innovative culture. So if the government took major equity shares in a company and because of that provided unfair access for those companies to its products and its people, by definition, they're stopping the startups who have better ideas to come and compete for it. I think free competition. Go back to the first question you asked me, winning and losing. If you want entrepreneurs to win, you have to give them at least a sense that they're playing in a level playing field.
这个挑战，我只是用它来比喻，现在我担心我们正在看到价值过度集中。我认为它被称为“超级七”（mag seven），但现在有个新的提法叫“mangoes”，其中包括了其他一些公司。你会发现价值集中在这些公司身上。我觉得今年以来有85%的价值增值都集中在这些顶尖公司中。如果没有对此进行干预或者采取其他措施，难道不会让最大的公司变得更加庞大并独占市场吗？
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
The challenge, and again, I'm just using this as a calendar, I'm worried that we're seeing this concentration of value. And I think it's been called like a mag seven, but mangoes, I think, is the new one where it includes some other people. Where you just see this concentration of value towards them, I think it's 85% of year-to-date value accruals been in those top names. If you don't have that or any form of almost intervention, do you not just have the biggest companies getting bigger and bigger and running away with it?
我认为有很多方法可以解决这个问题。你提到关于股权的问题，我觉得那不是一个合适的模式，但我们先来说说核心问题吧。核心问题是，没有任何新技术会最终导致工作岗位减少。我认为人工智能也不会有所不同。然而，当新技术出现时，比如从农业革命到工业革命，过渡时期的人们总是受到影响。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I think there are many ways to come around it. Taking equity is the question you asked. I don't think that's the right model, but let's get to what the core issue is, right? The core issue is, no new technology that's come along ultimately created less jobs. I don't think AI is going to be anything different. But when new technologies come along, even from the agrarian revolution to the industrial revolution, the transition generation suffers.
有附带损害。由于我们正在创造如此多的财富，是否有办法拿出一部分财富来确保那些在转型过程中受到波及的人不必作为附带损害而遭受痛苦？应该有这样的机制。这应该由政治人物来解决，对吗？应该有这样的机制。我完全支持这种想法。因为这些人并没有过错。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
There's collateral damage. Because we are creating so much wealth, is there a way to take a portion of that wealth and make sure that the people caught in the transition don't have to suffer as collateral damage? There should be a construct. That's for the political figures to figure out, right? There should be a construct. And I'm completely for that. Because these are people for no fault of their own.
在硅谷，我们一直说每个人都应该学习编程，因为如果你不会编程，你就没有未来。现在突然出现了人工智能，我们又在说程序员没有未来了。代码，你不需要再去写这些东西了。所以，作为一个社会，作为一个科技行业，我认为我们应该有同理心，去关心这些人。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
You know, we in Silicon Valley said everybody learn how to code because if you don't know how to code, you don't have a future. Suddenly comes AI and we are saying you coders have no future. Code, you don't need to do that. Yeah, why are you doing that, right? So as a society, as a technology industry, I think we should be empathetic to taking care of those people.
我们提到了一些当今最大的公司的名字。它们对能源的关注以及获取能源供应比以往任何时候都更加重要。但这些大型公司在某些方面是否正在悄悄地转型为能源公司呢？有趣的是，我们谈到的是“制造智力”。从来没有哪种产品比利用电力制造智能更具价值。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
We mentioned some of the big names in terms of the biggest companies of our day. Their focus on energy, acquiring energy supply is more important than ever. Are we seeing the hyperscalers secretly become energy companies in some ways? Here's what's interesting, right? We're manufacturing intelligence, as we spoke about. And there's never been a more high-value product manufactured with electricity than intelligence.
与化工厂不同，这个工厂的投入不是各种原材料、矿石等，而只是电力和数据，而数据无处不在。因此，这个工厂的唯一真实成本投入就是电力。机器是芯片，输出的是智能。因此，电力是最重要的投入，而目前电力并不是充足的。显然，电力成为了关键因素。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So the input into the factory, unlike a chemical factory where all these raw materials, ores, other things come in and you process, the input into this factory is simply electricity and data, and data is everywhere. So the only real cost input coming in is electricity. The machines are the chips. The output is intelligence. So this is the single largest input, and that input today is not abundant. So clearly, electricity becomes the key factor.
因此，在这里，我的看法略有不同。我认为，电力对于这个能快速扩大规模的关键行业变得如此重要，这意味着自爱迪生时代以来，经过将近150年，我们将在全球建立一个全新的电力结构，这将是更加数字化的电力，而不是机械时代的电力。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So herein, I see it slightly differently. I believe the fact that electricity became so important for this critical industry that knows how to move at speed and scale is going to mean that since Edison, almost 150 years later, we are going to make a new construct for electricity in the world that's more digital electricity as opposed to the mechanical age electricity.
数字化电力由于多种原因将会更加高效、更清洁、更可靠。我可以为你详细解释。当那些拥有资源的大公司能够在大规模上实现这种新型电力时，它的好处将会逐渐惠及全球大众。以撒哈拉以南非洲和孟加拉国为例，这些属于发展中国家的地区也将从中受益。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And that digital electricity, for many reasons I can walk you through, is going to be more efficient, it's going to be cleaner, it's going to be more reliable. And when these large companies that have the resources to allow that kind of new electricity to happen at scale, it's going to trickle down to the masses everywhere. Sub-Saharan Africa and Bangladesh, to just use examples of countries that are in the developing basket, are going to benefit from this.
就像最开始只有昂贵的汽车才配备安全气囊，但几年后，这种技术就应用到所有汽车中，改善了每个人的生活。因此，我非常乐观地认为，如果我们从未来20年的角度回看，我们会说人工智能是最好的事情，因为它让全世界的人都拥有了电力充足的生活。人工智能只是一个催化剂、踏脚石和加速器。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Just like an airbag comes in a very expensive car initially, and within a few years, you see it in every car, and it improves everybody's lives. So I'm super optimistic that if we look back 20 years from now, we will say AI was the best thing that happened because of which electricity abundance happened to everybody on the planet. AI is just a catalyst, a stepping stone, and an accelerator.
你之前提到过，可以迅速在电网中产生数十吉瓦的发电能力。这是一个相当大的说法。那么实际上，你能在多快的时间内实现这样的发电能力？你是怎么考虑这个问题的，这有多大的可能？因为扩大生产规模就是一切。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
You said before, speaking of that, about the ability to produce tens of gigawatts of power generation on the grid in a hurry. It's a pretty big claim. How much can you actually deploy in a hurry, like speed to production? How do you think about that, and how possible is it? Because scaling production is everything.
你怎么看待这个问题？你看，我们开发了一种不依赖传统电力供应和供应链的技术。而且我们使用的技术更类似于计算机电子和硬件，对吧？这是一个固态装置，可以发电。所以即使在数十吉瓦的情况下，我们在现有的制造类似设备的供应链中只占很小的一部分。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
How do you think about that? Look, we have developed a technology which does not use the traditional power supply, supply chains. And the technologies we use are more akin to computer electronics and hardware, right? It's a solid state device that makes the electricity. So even at the tens of gigawatts, we will be single-digit percentages of the total supply chain that already exists to make other devices of similar nature.
所以，当史蒂夫·乔布斯推出他的第一款智能手机时，没有人会问：明年你会制造5000台还是10000台？他们谈的是上百万台。而且有一条供应链，知道如何快速扩大规模。这就是我们将要依赖的供应链。这一切不是偶然发生的。这个公司的创建就是为了点亮整个星球，这是公司的使命。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So when Steve Jobs comes and shows his first smartphone, nobody says, will you build 5,000 of these or 10,000 of these next year? It's in the millions. And there's a supply chain that knows how to scale very fast. That's the supply chain we're going to rely on. And that didn't happen by accident. The company was built to light up the planet. That was the mission of the company.
所以，我们公司所做的一切，包括我们的生产线，都是为了有一天能够快速扩张做好准备。现在，我们正在开启这一章，并付诸实施。这一切都关乎执行。而在如此大规模上进行执行并不简单，就像我第一次与Antigrow一起开发产品时学到的一样。但我现在仍在这里讲述这个故事，这说明我们是很好的学习者。我们学会了在跌倒时如何重新站起来。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So everything we did in the company, including our manufacturing lines, were built for one day being able to scale and scale fast. Now we are just opening that chapter and executing to that. It's all about execution. And execution at that scale is not trivial, is not easy, just like I learned the very first time I had to build a product with Antigrow. But I'm still here to talk about that story, which means we are good learners. We learn how to get up when we fall.
所以你们能够将生产规模扩大到数十吉瓦，而其他能源替代方案却做不到吗？没错。这也是股票价格上涨1200%的原因之一。这真的非常吸引人。对于您来说，我们之前谈到过瓶颈问题。是不是仅仅因为法规和许可限制了快速供电？因为你们的订单量非常大，大概有200亿，是这样吗？是的，事情是这样的：如果你想建一个两吉瓦的数据中心，从头开始（Greenfield）建设需要一年半以上的时间。为此，有一整条供应链，包括建筑工人和与该数据中心相关的供应链零件。现在它们都面临压力。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So you are able to scale production to the tens of gigawatts in a way that other energy alternatives are not able to? Exactly. Hence the 1,200% increase in stock price. It's compelling. For you, we spoke earlier about bottlenecks. Is it simply regulation and permitting that prevents speed to power? Because your backlog book is insane. It's like 20 billion, I think. Yes. So here's what happens, right? If you want to build a two gigawatt data center, it's going to take you more than a year and a half, year to build at Greenfield. There's an entire supply chain for that, including construction workers to supply chain parts related to that data center. They're all being stressed right now.
数据中心需要大量铜材，供应链上存在问题。数据中心还需要大量冷却设备，供应链上也存在问题。建设这些超大型中心需要专业技工，供应链也受到影响。因此，建设这样一个数据中心至少需要12到18个月的时间。然而，我们在布鲁姆公司可以比建设数据中心更快地提供电力。因此，我们的目标是确保当您依赖我们时，电力不会成为瓶颈。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
There's a lot of copper that goes inside a data center. There's a supply chain issue related to that. There's a lot of cooling that goes inside a data center. There's a supply chain issue related to that. The tradespeople are required to build these extremely large centers. There's a supply chain related to that. So it takes 12 to 18 months minimum to build something like that. We can stand up that power faster than they can build a data center. So our goal at Bloom is to say, power should not be a bottleneck if you rely on us.
那么，我们的限制条件是什么呢？首先，他们能否及时建好他们的数据中心？我们是否能够拿到许可证？第三点是，我们需要天然气。这些天然气供应必须能够到位。这些都是主要的瓶颈。我认为目前我们交付产品并不是瓶颈所在。当你考虑到扩大规模的能力时，这将让你处于一个主导或胜利的位置。说到从这场不可思议的技术革命中脱颖而出的赢家，他们在技术栈中占据着不同的层次。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So what are our constraints? Number one, can they build it in time, their data center? Can we get the permits? And the third part is, we need gas. That gas supply needs to be able to come in. Those are the big bottlenecks. I don't see us delivering the product as a bottleneck right now. When you think about your ability to build that scale, it would put you in a dominant slash winning position. When you think about the winners that emerge from this incredible technology revolution, you have different layers of the stack.
是能源公司在生产这种惊人的能量吗？是像NVIDIA这样的芯片公司吗？是像Anthropik和OpenAI这样的模型公司吗？当你考虑这个领域的价值积累时，实用性和有价值的资源是什么呢？归根结底，我认为几乎所有的行业都是赢家。只是看你提到的那些领域中，哪些是关键的公司。如果没有这些公司存在，就无法建立一个可持续发展的生态系统。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Is it the energy companies that produce this incredible power? Is it chip companies like NVIDIA? Is it model companies like Anthropik and OpenAI? When you think about value accrual in the space, what's the utility and what's the valuable resource? At the end of the day, I would think almost all of the sectors are winners. It's just what are the names in each one of those verticals that you mentioned. Because if that doesn't exist, then you don't build an ecosystem that sustains.
如果在这个过程中只有少数几个人获胜，人工智能就不会普及。我坚信人工智能会普及，这意味着会有一整条赢家链。我们从最右边开始，最右边是消费者，也就是购买产品并从中发现比不使用该产品更多价值的客户。所以他们必须是赢家。因此，无论是小餐馆、洗衣店，还是大型生物医药公司或癌症治疗医院，都必须从中受益。人们也必须从中受益，他们都是赢家。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
If there are only a couple of winners in this, AI is not going to become ubiquitous. And I absolutely believe AI will become ubiquitous, which means there's an entire chain of winners. Let's start at the very right. At the very right is the consumer, the customer who procures it and finds greater value using that product than not using that product. So they have to be a winner. So any business, all the way from a mom and pop restaurant, laundry store, to a very large biomedical company or a cancer cure hospital, has to benefit from it. The people have to benefit from it. They're all winners.
然后你开始向左看。几乎所有的科技最终都会向边缘发展，更接近人们所在的地方。所以我们现在谈论的不仅仅是那些大型的超级数据中心，即人工智能工厂。这些人工智能工厂最终需要一个分布式的智能仓库。那些就是分布在每个社区中的边缘数据中心，就像我们现在所在的这个社区一样。它们将成为赢家。然后，开发各种服务的人也会成为赢家，因为他们是提供这些服务的服务商。而支持这个生态系统的所有人都会获得成功。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Then you start coming to the left. Almost everything in technology ultimately moves to the edge, closer to where people are. So it's not just the large, big mega data centers that we are talking about right now, the AI factories. The AI factories ultimately need to have this distribution warehouse of intelligence. Those are the edge data centers residing in every neighborhood like the one we are in right now. They become winners. And then you have the people who develop all the services winning because they're the service providers that provide all this. And everybody who supports the ecosystem wins.
在我看来，就像你所关注的电力领域一样，电力是唯一一个还没有走向边缘的大型基础设施。过去，我们一直依赖非常遥远的大型发电厂，通过传输线路和配电网络（就像高速公路和地面街道一样）将电力输送给我们。问题在于，电力的运行已经实现了数字化，但电力本身却没有实现智能化，还没有走向边缘化。这就是Bloom的意义所在——这是Bloom的故事。我们相信，将电力推向边缘是必须要实现的。这就是电力的数字化转型。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But to me, on the electricity side that you focused on, electricity is the one large infrastructure that's not come to the edge. It's always so far being very large power plants built very far away with transmission distribution coming in highways and, you know, like surface streets to you. How is it that electricity runs digital, but electricity alone doesn't get smart, doesn't come to the edge? That's what Bloom's about. That's the Bloom story. We believe bringing power to the edge has to happen. That is the digital transformation of electricity.
我们是唯一一个为特定目的而建立和创建的公司，开发了一种到达边缘的技术和平台。当能源到达边缘时，会发生什么事情，人们没有看到什么呢？他们今天没有看到的是，在一切都数字化的世界中，任何原因导致的断电都是不可接受的。这就像没有空气可呼吸，因为天知道，有人在进行手术时，那将是个依赖所有数据、电子信息的机器人，此时断电是不允许的。如果所有交通物流都是无人驾驶的并且发生了混乱，你不能依赖远处的大型数据中心的响应，因为那时已经造成了足够多的损害。你无法承受延迟。因此，这需要在边缘完成。当生活中的一切如此依赖于电力不断时，穿越数百英里、易受到大自然破坏或恶意攻击（无论是网络攻击还是实体攻击）的电线杆和电线，不能成为唯一的生命线。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And we are the only purpose-built, purpose-created company that created a technology and a platform that comes to the edge. What does no one see about what happens when power comes to the edge? What they don't see today is in a world where everything is digital, having power outages for any reason is unacceptable. That's like not having air to breathe because, God forbid, somebody is doing a surgery. That's going to be a robot relying on all the data, everything coming electronically, and not having power at that moment is not an option. If you have all the transportation logistics driverless and there's a chaos, you cannot rely on some large data center far away with latency because by then enough damage has happened. You cannot afford the latency. So that needs to happen on the edge. So when everything in life depends so intimately on that power not going off, a pole and a wire running across hundreds of miles capable of disruption by Mother Nature, capable of destruction by bad actors, whether it's on cyber or a physical attack, cannot be the only way that lifeline is delivered to you.
为了实现数字化转型的整体梦想，毫无疑问，电力必须在边缘提供。我正努力理解这一点，因为许多世界顶尖领导人告诉我，电力是最大的问题。而与你交流时，我想起我的朋友KR，因为他有无限的电力，并且能在边缘非常有效地提供它。我该如何理解“电力是问题”这一说法，和你所说的“我们能够大量生产电力并在边缘提供”，两者之间的矛盾？是不是规模的问题？是的，现在你可以开始看到增长的拐点，但还处于初始阶段。所以我完全理解你的看法，也认同它。让我们放在一个大的背景中来看，全球的电力市场规模是五万五千亿美元，而去年我们的收入是二十亿美元，所以我们还有很大的追赶空间。你已经做得很好了，但还有很长的路要走。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So power has to be at the edge without a question for us to realize the entire dream of the digital transformation. I'm just struggling to reconcile. A lot of the world's biggest leaders telling me that power is the biggest problem. And I speak to you and I'm like, I'll speak to my friend KR because he's got unlimited power and it's at the edge and he's able to provide it very sufficiently and well. How do I reconcile power is the problem with your saying, hey, we can produce it in large quantities and bring it to the edge in a way that others can't? Why are they still saying that? It's a scale issue, right? Again, you're beginning to see the hockey stick, but it's the beginning stages. So I completely sympathize with how you see it and I agree with it. And let's put this in perspective. Electricity in the world is a five and a half trillion dollar market. Last year, our revenues were two billion. So we need to catch up. You've done well, but you've got a long way to go.
是的，我们还有很长的路要走。但请不要误会，边缘计算的力量正在崛起，它将会变得主导，并且会彻底改变电力行业。将来我们回顾这个时代时，会说人工智能加速了这一变革。这对地球上的每个人都是一件好事，原因有两个，对吧？人们谈论清洁能源。我们之所以容忍不清洁的能源，仅仅是因为它们不在我们的视线范围内，在遥远的地方。如果那种能源就在你卧室窗外，或者就在你办公室窗外，你就不会在乎什么法规了。你会希望它是清洁的，希望你的孩子能呼吸到清新的空气。因此，清洁能源将会变得自然而然、成为必需品。此外，边缘计算的电力还会带来许多其他好处。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Yeah, we have a long way to go. But make no mistake, power at the edge is coming, is going to be dominant, and it's going to transform the electricity industry. We're going to look back at this age and say AI accelerated that. And that's a good thing for everybody on the planet because of two reasons, right? People talk about clean power. The only reason we tolerate power that's not clean is it's out of sight, out of mind, somewhere far away. If it's outside your bedroom window, if it's outside your office window, you don't care about what the regulations are. You want it to be clean. You want your children to breathe that clean air. So clean will become just second nature, stable stakes. So there's so many other benefits that are going to come from having power at the edge.
翻译如下：
其次，每当你将能量从一个分子转化为电力时，都会产生热量。在大型发电厂中，这些热量常常被浪费掉。而当能量转换发生在靠近用户的地方时，你可以利用这部分热量进行供暖或制冷。因此，你可以更高效、更可持续地利用这些分子。这不仅让你拥有所需的控制和主动权，还能带来其他各种好处。当电力被广泛使用时，获取电力的权利不会受到权力人物的限制，这才是真正的民主。在此基础上，我的问题是，如果我是总统，并且任命你负责制定政策和法规，我会请你想办法让美国成为能源强国。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And number two is anytime you develop power from or you transform power from a molecule to electricity, there's heat associated with that. That heat in a large power plant gets wasted. When it's close to the edge, you use it for heating. You use it for cooling. So you're able to use that molecule in a much more efficient manner, much more sustainable manner. So it not only brings you control and destiny, which you need, it also brings all the other good attributes of it. And when power is democratized, access is not restricted by people who are in power. And that's true democracy. My question on the back of that is, if I were the president and I put you in charge of policy and regulation, I said, KR, make America a powerhouse for power.
好的。那么您会做些什么不同于我们现在所做的事情呢？我不是要您批评现任政府，而是想知道您会如何让美国在能源政策和法规方面成为强国。我会像制定任何商业计划一样，将其分为短期、中期和长期目标。长期愿景是，无论您生活在哪里，都有风能、太阳能、地热等可用资源。在自然赋予您电力时使用它，然后在自然无法提供电力时，通过现场制氢来储存这些电力。之后，您可以用像Bloom这样的技术回收利用氢气，以保证在您生活的任何地方都能获得可靠且充足的能源。这样，无论您居住在冰岛还是撒哈拉以南的非洲，成为自给自足的社区，而无需依赖某种能量输送线，这对您的福祉至关重要，是非常有意义的。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Yeah. What would you do differently that we're not doing today? I'm not asking you to critique any of the current administration. But what would you do to make America a powerhouse and policy and regulation around power? So I would break that, like any other business plan, into a short-term, mid-term, and long-term. Long-term vision for the world is wherever you live, there's wind, solar, geothermal, something available. You use that electricity when nature gives it to you. And then you bottle that electricity when nature will not give it to you in the form of a hydrogen that you make right on site. And then you recycle that hydrogen using something like Bloom to be able to get reliable, abundant power wherever you live. So the fact that you become self-reliant in any community, whether you live in Iceland or you live in sub-saharan Africa, and not depend on some lifeline, some logistic lifeline bringing you energy, which is critical to your well-being, is huge.
这是我对长期愿景的设想，我对此非常乐观。那么，我们如何实现这个目标呢？但是在短期内，美国拥有惊人的天然气储量，这是目前可用的最佳分子选择，尽管它有碳足迹。它是现有最清洁、碳足迹最小的分子。我们应该与澳大利亚、加拿大、阿联酋、卡塔尔等自由国家一起，能够为全球几乎每个国家提供这种天然气的使用。这是经济实惠的，我们不需要燃烧煤炭。所以，不应让“好”成为“最好”的敌人。我们应该做到这一点，并使用我们建造的设备，为地球上任何人提供分布式电力。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
That's the vision I have for the long term. And I'm super optimistic about that. Okay, so how do you facilitate that? But in the immediate term, America is endowed with unbelievable amounts of natural gas, which is the best available option molecule, even though it has a carbon footprint. It is the cleanest, the smallest carbon footprint molecule available. We should be able to, along with Australia, along with Canada, along with UAE, along with Qatar, the free world, be able to provide access of that gas to practically every country in the nation. And it is affordable and economical where we don't have to burn coal. So good should not be the enemy of the best. So we should be able to provide that. And we should use boxes like what we built to be able to bring that distributed power to anybody in the planet.
让那些不为我们利益着想的人为我们提供电力和能源并不是明智之举。我会建议总统，立即采取行动，从自由世界获取自由的燃料，以便让更多地区变得自由。我们在购买如此多的能源时，实际上是在资助俄罗斯这个竞争对手，这是多么愚蠢的行为。我们为什么还要这样做呢？这不合逻辑，也不合理。我们有更好的解决办法。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Let us not let the people who don't have our best interest supplying power to us, supplying energy to us. That would be the immediate pathway, I would tell the president, is that let's bring free fuel from a free world to make more of the world free. How criminal is it that we still buy so much energy from Russia, an adversary that we are openly funding their competitor of, but we're still funding them to buy energy from? Exactly. So why would we need to do that? It is illogical. It's not rational. And there's a better way.
您提到冰岛的一个村庄拥有储存自己能源的能力，以备不时之需。我们经常谈论模型主权，认为欧洲需要自己的模型。但我认为，能源自主权要重要得多。您是否同意能源自主权更为重要，甚至是最重要的呢？在全球的供应链中，我们大多知道如何在任何地方种植粮食。粮食之后，就是能源自主权，这是至关重要的。如果回顾历史，为了水源已经爆发过大规模战争。例如，当一条河流经多个国家时，常常会为水权而战。虽然我们知道如何生产水，也知道如何生产粮食，但能源方面的战争仍在进行中。我们可以避免这些战争的发生。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
You mentioned that kind of the ability for a village in Iceland to store their own energy for when it's not maybe abundant. We talk a lot about model sovereignty. Oh, we need our own models in Europe. It strikes me that energy sovereignty is much more important. Would you agree that energy sovereignty is more important and the most important thing? I think of all the supply chains in the world, we pretty much know how to grow food wherever we are. After food, it's energy sovereignty, period. If you just go back to the history of the world, right, big wars have been fought for water. If there's a river flowing through multiple countries, big wars have been fought for water rights. We know how to produce water. Big wars have been fought for food. We know how to produce food. Big wars are being fought for energy, are being fought for energy, as we speak. And we can avoid that.
当我们想到未来的能源充裕时，常常有人宣称在太空中建立数据中心，通过捕获太阳能来实现这一目标，认为这是一个“终极解决方案”。然而，这种想法到底能解决多少问题，还是说它只是一个不切实际的幻想？你知道，我曾参与过火星任务，我知道如何在火星上制造水和能呼吸的空气。相信我，这真的很困难。我并不是在怀疑这点，Kay。你可以从岩石中挤出水，但为什么要这么做呢？目前在地球上有更好的方法来实现这些。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
When we think about energy abundance for a futuristic, data centers in space is often kind of proclaimed to be this kind of holy grail, capturing energy from the sun. And how much of a solution is that versus a bluntly unrealistic pipe dream? You know, I worked on the Mars missions, and I know how to produce water and breathing air on Mars. Trust me, it's really hard. I wasn't doubting it, Kay. You can squeeze water out of a rock, but why? There are better ways to do that right now on Earth.
请问，众所周知，甲骨文和你们有个大合同。Larry Ellison是如何选择固体氧化物燃料电池来为甲骨文的数据中心和他的其他数据中心供电的呢？你们之间的交流是怎样的？结果就是对的不是吗？在人工智能出现之前，我们至少有五六个数据中心客户。在过去的10到12年间，我们一直为边缘数据中心和其他数据中心提供可靠的电力，从4兆瓦到10兆瓦，再到15兆瓦不等。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Can I ask, you know, Oracle have an enormous deal with you. How did Larry Allison end up choosing solid oxide fuel cells to power Oracle data centers and his data centers? And what did that communication conversation look like? So, you know, the proof is in the pudding, right? Before AI came along, we had at least five or six data center customers. And over a period of 10 to 12 years, we've been providing reliable power to edge data centers, other data centers, 4 megawatts, 10 megawatts, 15 megawatts for a data center.
我们的第一个数据中心应用是在2013年，当时eBay（那时eBay和PayPal是一起的）需要数据中心。想一想，PayPal的整个业务都依赖于数据中心，因为所有的交易都是在那里进行的。当时，他们在犹他州缺乏电力供给，但又不想搬迁到其他地方，所以他们选择依靠我们提供电力。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And our very first data center application was in 2013 when eBay, which used to be eBay and PayPal together. And if you think about it, right, PayPal's entire business is that data center because it's all about transactions. And all those transactions are happening in a data center. So they did not have power in Utah, and they needed power. The choice was to move somewhere else, and they didn't want to move their location. So they relied on us.
所以，那是我们第一次让关键任务数据中心完全由Bloom提供动力。我们通过时间的积累建立了这种声誉。几年前，犹他州有一个数据中心正在建设中，需要为Oracle的客户上线，但电力系统遇到了延迟。因此，他们找到我们，问我们是否能提供一年的临时解决方案。我毫不犹豫地说可以。我们和他们签订了一份合同，承诺在签约后的90天内提供超过50兆瓦的电力，这是一个不可思议的速度。结果，我们在55天内就完成了，而不是90天。通电了。他们对所见所闻感到非常满意。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So that was our first application of a mission-critical data center being powered fully by Bloom. And we built that reputation over time. So a couple years ago, there was a data center in Utah that was being built and had to come online for Oracle's customer, and the power systems were delayed. So they came to us and said, can you give us a temporary solution for a year? I said, absolutely. We signed a contract with them that 90 days from the day we signed the contract, we would do 50-plus megawatts, which is an unbelievable speed. We delivered that in 55 days instead of 90 days. Power on. They were thrilled with what they saw.
现在，这就成为他们的理由：为什么我们要去寻找其他解决方案呢，当我们已经有了一个非常适合的解决方案。Bloom系统有许多为数据中心精心设计的特点。我给你举两三个简单的例子帮助你理解。假设你有一个大型涡轮机，比如说是500兆瓦的，它为一个500兆瓦的数据中心供电。在20年的周期中，这个涡轮机的年平均可用率大约在90%左右。因为你需要对涡轮机进行维护，就像飞机引擎或者汽车一样，它必须停下来进行保养。那么在剩下的10%时间里会发生什么？你会关闭数据中心吗？这不可能，因为数据中心必须始终保持运作。在过去，当数据中心规模较小时，你可以依赖电网作为备用。但现在已经没有一个千兆瓦级别的电网可以为你提供备用。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So now that formed the basis for them to say, why would we go and look for other solutions when we have a great solution that fits the bill? There are so many attributes of the Bloom system that are so well done for a data center. Let me give you two or three simple examples so you can understand. If you have a large turbine, let's say it's 500 megawatts, one single large turbine, powering a 500 megawatt data center. That turbine's availability over a 20-year period on a yearly basis will be somewhere in the low 90s, you know, 90%. Because you need to maintain the turbine. It's like your jet engine or it's like your car. It has to stop. You have to maintain it. What happens during the other 10%? Are you going to turn down the data center? You can't. The data center has to be always on. In the past, when the data centers were small, you relied on the grid to be the backup. Now there is no grid that is a gigawatt in size that can be backing you up.
那么，你需要做什么呢？你需要安装两个涡轮机，而不是一个，这样当其中一个发生故障或需要检修时，另一个可以备用。而在Bloom公司，我们构建了小型模块化电源，每个单元是50千瓦。因此，当你在进行维护工作时，可以随时替换任何一个单元，就像数据中心的构造一样。如果你观察一下Bloom系统的架构，会发现它非常类似于数据中心的架构。数据中心有很多不同的服务器刀片，即使其中一个服务器刀片出现故障，也不会导致整个数据中心瘫痪。同样，数据中心有很多机架，即使一个机架出问题，也不会让整个数据中心停运。我们的架构正是这样的。因此，你不需要像大型涡轮机那样过度建设，只需增加很小的比例即可。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So what do you have to do? You have to put two turbines instead of one and have one as the backup when one fails or one has to be overhauled. With Bloom, we are tiny modular power builders, each one 50 kilowatts. So you can hot swap any one when you're working with it, very similar to how a data center is built. If you look at the architecture of the Bloom system, it's very much like the architecture of the data center. You have so many different server blades, and any one server blade going down does not take the data center down. There's so many racks. Any one rack going down does not take the entire data center down. Our architecture is exactly like that. So you don't have to overbuild us by anything more than a small percentage compared to the large turbines, number one.
第二，我们是固态设备，这意味着我们可以在毫秒内迅速调整功率，这正是人工智能负载所需要的。人工智能负载就像大脑。想象一下，我们的大脑会突然活跃起来，消耗大量能量，然后又平静下来。在人工智能数据中心中，所有GPU都是这样运作的。再想象一下涡轮机和你的汽车。即使你拥有最快的汽车，从零加速到60英里也需要几秒钟，因为它是一个需要时间来加速和减速的机械装置。而我们是可以非常快速调整速度的固态设备。因此，以前需要使用电池来实现这些加速和减速，但使用Bloom就不再需要这些电池了。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Number two, we're a solid state device, which means we can ramp up and ramp down in power in milliseconds, which is what the AI loads need. AI loads are like the brain. Just think about it. Our brain goes into huge activity, pulse, a lot of energy, then it calms down. The same thing happens in an AI data center with all the GPUs. Think about a turbine. Think about your car. Even if you have the fastest car, zero to 60 takes a few seconds because it's a mechanical device that has to ramp up and ramp down. We are a solid state device that can ramp up and down very fast. So all the batteries that they needed to provide this ramp, they don't need it with Bloom.
您不能在建立数据中心时安装一部分涡轮机进行供电，然后随着数据中心的扩展再逐渐增加涡轮叶片。而使用Bloom则完全不同。只需告诉我您今天需要的，我们会根据您的增长不断增加“乐高模块”。所以当我说Bloom是专为数字基础设施而设计和建造的，这是真正的事实。而那些针对机械时代基础设施（如涡轮机和引擎）进行的权宜之计是没有办法做到这一点的。他们看到了所有这些优势，所以讨论起来相对轻松。您提到大约是55天，而不是90天。这是一个过于保守的估计。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
You cannot put a partial turbine to power a data center as it's building and then keep adding turbine blades as the data center is ramping up. With Bloom, it's completely different. Just tell me what you need today. And as you're growing, we'll just keep adding the Lego blocks. So when I tell you that Bloom was purpose built and purpose designed for the digital infrastructure, it was truly done that way. And the band-aids that you put on the mechanical age infrastructure, like turbines and engines, simply cannot do that. They saw all these advantages. And so it was a fairly easy conversation. You said there about 55 days, not 90. That is one undershot.
我的意思是，这做得非常出色。那么客户的主要关注点什么时候会从速度转向成本呢？客户对价格到底有多敏感？我们之前提到的电力背景是很关键的，因为电力是制造智能的主要投入。如果从头到尾来看，重点既不是价格也不是成本，而是价值。你在生成代币，而代币是有价值的。那么整个链条是什么样的？你如何最大化它的价值？我之所以这样说，是因为我们过去从电网供应电力时考虑的成本是“一刀切”的。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I mean, amazingly done. When does the primary focus for customers move from speed to cost? And how price sensitive are customers? You know, with electricity, go back to the context we talked about. It is the primary input to manufacturing intelligence. At the end of the day, when you look at it end-to-end, it's neither price nor cost, it's value. You're generating tokens. The token has a value. What's that entire stream look like? And how can you maximize the value? So the reason I'm saying that is the cost of electricity as we used to think when the grid was supplying it. Because it was a one-size-fits-all electricity.
Bloom 所制造的是定制化电力。传统的一刀切电力模式意味着你购买的是标准化电力，然后必须对这种一刀切电力进行各种调整，比如需要在您拥有、操作和维护的数据中心中添加所有设备。这些设备可能会出现故障，造成可靠性问题，使您不得不处理相关的各种不便和低效。而使用 Bloom，我们会根据生成该代币的具体需求进行量身定制。相比于一刀切的水平化方法，量身定制的好处是什么呢？主要体现在生成代币的成本上，以及所需的电力、气体、铜和其他供应链及技工的数量上。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
What Bloom makes is designer electricity. So the one-size-fits-all electricity means that you buy that electricity, and then you have to make all the alterations to that one-size-fits-all, which is all the gear that you put in your data center that you own, that you operate, that you maintain. And those things fail. They create reliability issues. You have to deal with all that and all the inefficiency associated with that. With Bloom, we tailor fit exactly what the needs for generating that token are. And the benefits from being tailor-fitted versus one-size-fits-all horizontal is? Cost of the token generated, the amount of power needed for that, and the amount of gas needed for that, the amount of copper needed for that, the amount of other supply chain and tradesmen needed for that.
这是效率，没有浪费。这是完全的效率。是整个垂直体系的效率。就像是为你自己的家定制家具，完美贴合，而不是简单的通用立方体。你的积压订单有200亿，而今天的生产能力是1吉瓦。今年年底的生产能力是多少？我们将超过2吉瓦。我们已经公开说过。而且我们还表示，未来我们不会只是从2突然跃升到另一个大的阶梯函数或其他什么。这是基于我们今天在市场上看到的一切做出的决定。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
It's efficiency, that lack of wastage. It's entire efficiency. It's an entire stack efficiency, the full vertical stack. It's almost like you are custom designing a furniture for your own home that fits perfectly, as opposed to just generic cubes. Your backlog is 20 billion, and the manufacturing capacity is a gigawatt today. What's the manufacturing capacity by the end of this year? We'll be over two gigawatts. We said that publicly. And what we also said is, going forward, we are not just going to just ram from two to another big step function or whatever. We have made this based on everything we see in the market today.
可以这样理解，就像一个模拟调节旋钮。每个月、每个季度，随着我们的建设进展，我们都会不断增加产能。如果你来到我们的工厂，你会看到它不仅是一个最先进的生产设施，同时也是一个最先进的施工现场，这两个过程同时进行，而我们确实能做到这一点。此外，这是一个顶尖的创新区域，我们正在改进我们的制造流程，以便在未来可以更高效地生产，这一切都得益于人工智能。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Think of it almost like an analog dial. Every month, every quarter, we are going to keep adding more capacity as we build. So if you came to our factory, it's a state-of-the-art production facility, but it's also a state-of-the-art construction zone. They're both happening at the same time, and we're able to do that. And it's a state-of-the-art innovation area where we are innovating on our manufacturing processes so we can make it more efficient as we go forward, thanks to AI.
规模扩展的计划是什么样的？比如现在是一个机组，年底是两个，到2027年底是两个增加到十个吗？这是否完全不可能？因为我们是一家上市公司，所以我们没有提供这种前瞻性指导。因此，我不适合给出具体的数字。但是，我们对客户和市场的承诺是：在您开始建造新数据中心前，只要您预付押金预定电力，我们就会为您准备好所需的电力。我们不会成为发展的瓶颈。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
What does the scaling trajectory look like? You know, one now, two end of year, end of 27, is that two to 10? Is that grossly impossible? Because we are a public company, we have not given forward guidance on that. So I don't feel comfortable giving you a number. But the promise we have made to our customers and to the market is you come in and put a firm deposit for power. Before you build your greenfield data center, we'll have that power for you. We will not be the bottleneck.
你们的客户和收入是否集中在某个领域？没有，我们不存在这种情况。我们与多家大型云服务商和多个新型云平台合作。更重要的是，我们不仅仅不局限于人工智能领域。我们拥有强大的商业和工业业务。我们为工厂供电，为Home Depot、Costco和Walmart这样的商店提供电力，也为大学校园提供电力。比如，加州理工学院有三分之二的校园用电是由我们供应的。任何需要可靠电力的地方都应该选择我们。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Do you have a concentration in terms of customers and revenue? No, we don't. We are signed up with multiple hyperscalers. Yeah. We are signed up with multiple neoclouds. But more importantly, it's not just not having an AI concentration. We have a robust commercial and industrial business. We power factories. We power Home Depots and Costcos and Walmarts. We power college campuses. Two-thirds of Caltech campus is powered by us. Anybody who needs reliable power should use us.
我感兴趣的一点是，你们也因Leo Aschenbrenner在社交媒体圈子里的投资而变得有名。你有没有注意到他作为投资者对公司的影响，比如知名度、认知度和员工认同感？我第一次知道这件事是因为我22岁的女儿告诉我，她的朋友们都因为社交媒体在谈论这件事。是的，我觉得他是个非常聪明且深思熟虑的人，我认为他对于事物的发展有很好的想法。显然，我们同意他对Bloom的看法。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
One thing I'm interested by is you've become famous also in social media circles because of Leo Aschenbrenner and his investment in the company. Have you seen the effect of him being an investor on the company in terms of recognition, awareness, employee recognition? You know, the first time I knew about it was when my, you know, 22-year-old daughter showed me that all her friends are talking about it because of social media. Yeah. But I've, like, I've, like, made him sense. He's a very sharp, deep-thinking individual. I think he's got some tremendous ideas of, you know, where things are. We obviously agree with his thesis on Bloom.
我认为，这种影响将来自多个领域。这是一个非常重要的概念。分布式能源即将走向边缘，这一理念将极大地改变城市规划、公共资源的获取，以及人们为了让下一代过上更好生活而不得不从偏远地区搬到大城市的情况。我认为，地球上的100亿人口不应以这种方式生活。让我来解释一下：父母离开他们理想的乡村环境搬到城市，过着艰苦的生活，只是为了让他们的孩子能够获得更好的发展机遇。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
The impact, I think, look, it's going to come from multiple, multiple areas. This is a huge concept. The idea of distributed power coming to the edge is a concept that's going to change dramatically city planning, access, the need for people to move from an inaccessible area to a metropolitan city just so their next generation can have a better life. I don't think that's the way 10 billion people should live on the planet. So let me explain this. The only reason parents will leave their idyllic village settings and move into a city and live in paltry conditions, you know, they're willing to compromise their own life so their kids have better access.
为什么不把获取权利带到他们的生活中去呢？在数字时代，你可以随时随地提供所有信息。你可以将一切都带到那里。如果你带来了电力，我相信这会改变人们对世界的看法。所以你认为我们会看到城市和乡村的居民重新分布，更多人会选择留在城市之外，因为不再有这种必要性？是的。纵观人类历史，你会发现人们聚集在一起是为了获得资源。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Why not bring the access right where they live? In a digital age, you can bring all the information. You can bring everything else there. If you brought electricity, I think it changes how the world can think about itself. So you think we'll see a change in the redistribution of people in cities and countryside and more will remain outside of cities because of the lack of need? Yeah. Throughout human history, if you look at where people concentrated, it was for access.
在任何有水道的地方，比如河流、海岸边，人们都开始定居，因为水路是进行贸易和获取资源的绝佳渠道。随后，如果你观察大铁路和高速公路的分布，它们交汇的地方通常就是大城市所在地，也就是通路的创建之处。通路由那些掌控资源的人们建造，他们决定了人们的居住地。如果你能通过分布式系统打破这种格局，回到真正的民主，就能实现资源的民主化。任何发展到边缘的技术都有助于实现这种民主化。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So anywhere there was a waterway, by rivers, by the coast, is where people settled because waterways were a great way to trade and it was access. And then you just look at the large railroads, you look at the big highways, where they intersect is where large cities are, or, you know, that's where access is created. So access was created by people who control and they controlled where people lived. If you can break that using distributed, again, going back to true democracy, you just democratize things. Any technology coming to the edge democratizes it.
如今，您的手机是您的个人设备，仅包含您想要的内容。固定电话曾经给过您这样的自由吗？没有。这才是真正的民主。科技带来了真正的民主。如果您能够在掌握权力的同时做到这一点，它将改变地缘政治。在过去两到三年里，商业发生了很大变化。在您所目睹的令人难以置信的快速增长中，过去两到三年里，您对哪些问题有了最显著的观念改变？我认为直到这次重大转变发生之前，我们更关注内部事务，没有花太多时间讨论这些更宏大的想法以及它最终的发展方向，因为当时还不是讨论这些的最佳时机。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Your cell phone today is your personal device with only the things you want. Did the landline telephone ever give you that access? No. That's true democracy. Technology bringing true democracy. If you're able to do that with power, it changes geopolitics. The business has changed a lot in the last two to three years. What have you most significantly changed your mind on in the last two to three years as a result of the incredible parabolic growth that you've seen? I think until the time when this big switch happened, we were a lot more internally focused and I did not spend much time talking about the bigger ideas and where this can ultimately go because it was not the right time to do that.
现在，作为一家公司，我们感受到我们的使命不仅仅是建设公司本身，还包括畅想未来电力普及和资源丰富的可能性。这是我思维方式上的一个重大转变。所以我现在花更多的时间去讨论这个话题，并与人交流。在有机会的时候我一定要提问，你提到你的孩子们通过社交媒体谈论这个话题。当我在成长时，我的印象是“我长大后想成为像你这样的人”。身为一家杰出公司的首席执行官，你真的让人印象深刻。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Now we feel as a company, we have a larger mandate than just building the company, but to also speak about where the future can be in terms of electricity for all, abundance for all. So that's a big shift in my mindset. So I'm spending more time speaking about it and talking to people about it. I would be remiss not to ask this while I have the chance. You mentioned, you know, your children talking about it from social media. You know, when I grew up, I want to be UKR is the takeaway I have from this conversation. And with that, you're a CEO of an incredible business.
你也是一位父亲。在经营了一家市值数十亿的企业25年之后，你给父母的最大建议是什么？你同时兼顾事业和家庭的最大经验与建议是什么？我会告诉我的孩子们，要成为善良快乐的人。从事你热爱的事情。我很想快速聊聊与热情相关的话题。你从与约翰·杜尔合作中获得的最大教训是什么？要敢于梦想。关于人工智能，有什么广泛认可的观点你认为是完全错误的？认为它会减少就业机会。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
You're also a father. What would be your biggest parenting advice, having run a business for 25 years to the multi, multi, multi billions? What's your biggest lessons and advice on how to do both so well? You know, this is what I would tell my kids is I would say, be good people and be happy. Just work on the things you're passionate about. I would love to do a quick fire, speaking of passions. What was your biggest lesson from working with John Doerr? To dream big. What's one widely held belief about AI that you think is completely wrong? That it is going to diminish the number of jobs.
在能源转型中，谁是最被低估的人，没有得到足够的关注？我认为，是那些发明水平钻井技术并找到清晰方式提取更多天然气和石油的人，他们是通向未来的桥梁。整个这个领域都是被低估的。哪个国家在未来十年里最有望成为强国？我认为仍然是美国。欧洲是不是有点麻烦？我觉得欧洲因为人工智能的影响，比我预期的清醒得更快。我对从欧盟和英国听到的他们想要做出的改变持乐观态度。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Who's the most underrated person in the energy transition that doesn't get enough spotlight? I think the people who created horizontal drilling and figured out how to extract more gas and more oil in a clear way as a bridge to the future. That entire sector is underrated. Which country is set up best to be a powerhouse in the next decade? I think it's still the US. Is Europe slightly screwed? I think Europe is waking up faster than I would have expected because of AI. And I'm optimistic hearing both from the EU and UK about the changes they want to make.
关键是他们是否真的能足够快地做出改变？如果作为一家企业拥有无限的资金，你会做些什么目前还没有做的事情？我们会走向那些没有足够资本和资金提前购买我们设备和基础设施的国家。先投入这些，然后等他们受益后再回收成本。你们在进入亚洲市场方面有多大的能力和速度？我们现在已经做好了在全球任何地方发展的准备。但这将是一个非常有针对性的行动，并且我们在进入其他国家时，总会寻找当地的合作伙伴。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
The key is going to be can they really make the changes fast enough? If you had unlimited money as a business, what would you do that you're not doing today? We would be going to the rest of the world where they don't have the upfront money and capital to buy our boxes and our infrastructure. And putting that in and collecting later once they benefit from it. How able are you to move at speed into Asia? We are very well prepared to move anywhere in the world today. But it'll be a very focused effort and when we go to other countries, we'll always look for a partner in the country.
你经常思考但在新闻中很少见到或提及的是什么？我常常想到如何创造更平等的机会。公平和机会是不同的，但创造机会是很重要的。给每个人一个机会对我来说非常重要，他们如何利用这个机会则由他们自己决定。过去的25年里，最困难的时候是什么？是金融危机之后。我们当时建立了一条完全依赖美国的供应链。由于三大汽车企业的失败，它们都无法履行对我们的承诺，因为我们当时只是一个开发公司。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
What do you think a lot about, but you don't ever see it or see it often in the news? I think about creating more equal access. Equity is different, but creating access is important. Giving everybody an opportunity is super important to me. What they make of that opportunity is up to them. 25 years. What was the hardest time? It was post-financial crisis. We had built a completely U.S. supply chain. And because the big three automotives had failed, they were all not able to keep their promises to me because we were just a development company at that time.
在短短几个月内，我不得不为一个已经筹备了六年的强有力的A计划找一个B计划。那段时间真的很难熬。接近最后一个问题：别人为你做过的最善良的事情是什么？我在中国一个偏远地区时，遇到了严重的事故，差点流血过多致死。我被送往医院，由于是在一个偏远小镇，我通过翻译，在失去意识的最后几秒钟里说：“给我找架直升机，把我送到香港。”
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And I had to, within months, find a plan B for what is a strong plan A, six years in the making. It was a very difficult time to get through that. Penultimate one. What's the kindest thing anyone's ever done for you? So I was in China in a remote part. I had a bad accident where I could have easily bled to death. And I was driven to the hospital. It was in a remote town. So through my translator, with a few seconds left of my consciousness, I was like, get me a helicopter, get me to Hong Kong.
我不记得那位医生的名字，但我模糊地记得他的脸，当时他对翻译说，让他闭嘴，我要给他缝合伤口。否则，他的身体就会被送到香港。他给我缝合了伤口。回想起来，他没有听我的话反而帮了我一个大忙，这让我感到很感激。哇，这改变了一些看法。那么，最后一个问题，在接下来的十年里，你最期待什么呢？我想用积极的主题来结束。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And I don't know the name of the doctor, but I vaguely remember his face in that state, telling to the interpreter, ask him to shut up. I'm going to stitch him up. Otherwise, his body will be flown to Hong Kong. And he stitched me up. And when I look back, there's a very kind thing that he did for me, not listening to me. Wow. That changes some perspective. Final one for you. What are you most excited about when you look forward to the next 10 years? I like to hand on a theme of positivity.
我认为这个世界上的消极情绪太多了。你最期待什么呢？我真心相信，我们将回顾人工智能带来的强烈权力欲望，以及全球最富有的公司希望占据领先地位的现象，并认识到这是我们探索数字世界里的数字力量的关键原因。在不与环境发生冲突的前提下，我们将创造出充足且负担得起的能源。最终，我们会认识到，没有一个能源贫乏的国家能够经济富裕。如果我们创造能源充裕，就能带来经济富裕，从而让全世界都受益。我对这一机遇感到无比兴奋，想到未来可能会是一个多么美好的世界，我甚至为之难以入眠。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I think there's too much negativity in the world. What are you most excited for? I truly believe we will look back at this huge hunger for power that AI created and the most wealthy companies in the world wanting to get ahead, being the single most important reason for us to figure out digital power for the digital world and creating abundance of power that's not in conflict with the environment and making it affordable. That ultimately, there is no energy-poor country that's economically rich. If we create energy abundance, we create economic abundance, and that lifts all boats everywhere. So I'm super excited about that opportunity, and I almost have trouble sleeping when I think about what a brilliant world that can be.
听我说，我非常喜欢做这个。非常感谢你在讲故事方面表现得如此周到、聪明和有艺术性。你太棒了，我非常感激。非常感谢。这就是为什么你对这个项目如此兴奋。这可以让财务团队不再追逐发票，避免月末的混乱，并且可以获得实时可见性，为公司节省多达15%的差旅预算。这也是为什么像Visa、Stripe、Figma，甚至Anthropic这样的领导者如今都依赖Navan。访问navan.com/20VC看看吧，你还有机会赢得两张美国大陆地区的商务舱机票。无需购买，规则适用。现在就前往navan.com/20VC了解详情吧。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Yeah, listen, I've so loved doing this. Thank you so much for being so wonderfully thoughtful, brilliant, artistic with storytelling. You've been amazing, so I so appreciate it. Thank you so much. And that's why you're so excited about this. This allows finance teams to stop chasing receipts and skip the month-then chaos, and you get this real-time visibility that can save your company up to 15% on your travel budget. And that's why leaders like Visa, Stripe, Figma, and even Anthropic rely on Navan these days. Go to navan.com forward slash 20VC today to see for yourself, and you'll get a chance to win two business-class flights anywhere in continental US. No purchase necessary, rules apply. Head over to navan.com forward slash 20VC now.
一旦Navan简化了旅行，Airwallet就会简化旅行背后的支出。创始人们，让我们现实地面对成长中的负担。你们已经获得了风险投资，并正在全球范围内扩展业务，现在不再仅仅是推出产品，而是要协调跨洲的运营。但突然之间，你们的支付和财务系统成了你们发展的瓶颈。你们需要登录许多不同的银行门户网站，等待数天的资金转账，以及跨实体的报表。对于你们这个规模的企业来说，这是运营上的拖累，耗费了数百万的成本。这就是为什么我很高兴能与Airwallets合作。Airwallets不仅仅是汇丰或花旗银行的替代品。Airwallets为你提供了一种智能的财务操作系统，支持全球企业的运营和成长，使你能够管理和自动化银行、资金管理、支付和支出。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Once Navan simplifies the travel, Airwallet simplifies the spend behind it. Founders, let's get real about the growth tax. You've raised VC funding, and you're scaling globally, and it's no longer about shipping product. It's about orchestrating operations across continents. But suddenly, your payments and finance stack is choking your growth. You're logging into lots of different banking portals, waiting days for transfers, and reporting across entities. It's operational drag, and it's at your scale. It's costing millions. That's why I'm so excited to partner with Airwallets. Airwallets are more than just a banking alternative to HSBC or Citi. Airwallets brings you an intelligent financial operating system that powers how global businesses operate and grow, allowing you to manage and automate banking, treasury, payments, and spend.
最让我感到兴奋的是，他们正在大力投资于代理金融领域。如果你想在全球范围内扩展业务，你需要一个无国界、实时且智能的银行和金融平台。立即访问Airwallets，了解他们如何帮助Canva、McLaren和Deal等数千家企业实现发展。访问airwallets.com/20VC进行了解。适用条款和条件。您的资金受到保护，但不受FSCS保障。详情请参阅airwallets.com。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
The most exciting part for me, they're heavily investing in agentic finance. If you're scaling globally, you need a banking and finance platform that's borderless, real-time, and intelligent. Check out Airwallets today and see how they're helping thousands of businesses like Canva, McLaren, and Deal. Scale at airwallets.com forward slash 20VC. Terms and conditions apply. Your monies are safeguarded, not FSCS protected. See airwallets.com for more details.
Airwallets 帮助您的资金在全球范围内流通，而 Vanta 确保您的安全不掉队。 在商业中，有什么东西像 AI 一样迅速蔓延？ 那就是 AI 风险。 每当您的团队注册一个新工具，每当供应商开启 AI 功能，每次新的集成——抱歉地说，这些都是出错的机会。 而大多数安全程序并没有为 AI 的快速发展做好准备。 这就是 Vanta 的用武之地。 Vanta 是排名第一的信任平台，有超过 16,000 家快速发展的公司使用，包括 Ramp、Cursor、Harvey 等，以确保他们随时做好审计准备。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
While Airwallets helps your money move globally, Vanta helps your security keep up. What's one thing in business that's spreading as fast as AI? AI risk. Every new tool your team signs up for, every vendor that turns on AI features, every new integration, each one, I'm sorry to say, is an opportunity for something to go wrong. And most security programs weren't built for AI's pace of growth. Well, that's where Vanta comes in. Vanta is the number one agentic trust platform used by over 16,000 fast-moving companies like Ramp, Cursor, Harvey, and more to ensure they're always audit-ready.
现在，Vanta 正在帮助像您这样的公司监控在审计之间出现的风险，包括您供应商、AI 工具和整个环境中的风险。怎么做的呢？Vanta 的代理程序就像一个全天候不间断工作的 GRC 工程师，在后台寻找问题、起草解决方案，并将供应商协议时间缩减多达 50%。无论您是一家快速成长的初创公司，还是一家全球企业，Vanta 都能帮助您自动化您的安全和合规工作，并树立和证明信任。我的听众可以获得一个特别优惠，没错，是一个特别优惠，就是在 vanta.com/20VC 可以优惠 $1,000，网址是 V-A-N-T-A dot com slash 20VC，享受 $1,000 的优惠。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And now Vanta's helping companies like yours watch for the risks that show up between audits across your vendors, your AI tools, and your whole environment. How? Well, the Vanta agent works like a 24-7 GRC engineer in the background, finding issues, drafting fixes, and cutting vendor agreements time by up to 50%. Whether you're a fast-growing startup or a global enterprise, Vanta's here to help you automate your security and your compliance and earn and prove trust. My listeners get a special offer, oh yes, a special offer, $1,000 off Vanta at vanta.com slash 20VC, that's V-A-N-T-A dot com slash 20VC for $1,000 off.